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comp advice

Post  Len on 31st July 2008, 17:01

anyone consider themselves an expert on computers..component wise? I want to get a new rig..want to use one of the configurators available at like ibuypower.com or cyberpowerpc.com but just get overwhelmed with motherboard choices and all that.

Want to get the most for my dollar? Anyone want to help me shop?
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I am a expert

Post  Kinsar on 31st July 2008, 19:02

Yep, I am an expert..

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Didnt finish this before I hit send

Post  Kinsar on 31st July 2008, 19:26

I need to know what you have, how much money your willing to spend. Most of all, what do you want this for; is this a gaming pig, mobile pc, lan party, etc. I can point you in the right direction but I have to have a few details before I can get you there. Also, are you planning on building this system, or do you want a turn key system that you pull out of the box and fire up?

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Re: comp advice

Post  Len on 31st July 2008, 20:45

gaming. I just want to plug it in and have it run.

was playing with these various configurators..http://www.ibuypower.com/mall/lobby.htm quad core? dual core? athlon x2? SLI? crossfire?

looking to spend 1k if 1.2 gets me considerable more or if 800 gets about the same..the only thing i dont want is one of those crazy cases..prefer simple cases like the aluminum coolermaster.

think i want vista???
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Re: comp advice

Post  Adrood on 1st August 2008, 06:53

I buy all refurbished Dells for our CAD work and am very happy with the PC to price ratio.

Example PC available today:
Vostro Minitower
Intel Core 2 Duo 3160 processor E8500
XP-Pro
500GB 7.2k HD
4GB ram (800mhz)
DVD and DVD RW
256mb ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT

Price: $709

I dunno squat about that graphics card, but you might wind up ditching it and adding a better one.

I think the Vostro line has a next day 1 year on site warranty if you tell them you're buying it as a small business, not sure about non-small business purchase. All the refurbished ones have a ?2? week return policy if you're not happy, which I've exercised with 1 PC out of ~12....

I can't seem to get a link right to the search I used, but the refurb site is:
Dell Refubished Stockroom
Lok for Vostro Desktops...

I'd be curoius to know your opinion Kin.

Good luck Len. Very Happy

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Re: comp advice

Post  Bloodpool on 1st August 2008, 08:37

most people in the know don't like Dell. I like the fact I can pull it out of the box and go, andthat makes it worth the money right there. I also bought my current PC from the refurb site. Got an awesome deal. 650$ and its nearly top of the line, mine was a scratch-n-dent. I can't even see any dents tho so whatever.
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Re: comp advice

Post  Saaladin on 1st August 2008, 09:04

The pricing on the Dell refurb isn't too bad. The ATI/AMD HD 2xxx line was a horrendous effort on their part however, and that's about two generations outdated at this point. Not a very good card.

I'll dabble through the Ibuypower stuff, and give you some suggestions Len. Unless of course you decide you want to build this yourself, and have a specific budget... in which case it'll be easy to raid newegg/zipzoomfly for parts Razz


Edit: I've got a good Intel rig specced out on Ibuypower... I'm more partial to AMD, so I'll throw an alternate thing together. Staying sub-$900 for now, or trying to.

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Re: comp advice

Post  Saaladin on 1st August 2008, 09:33

Intel System:

Case ( Tuniq Symmetry I Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply Black )
Case Lighting ( None )
Power Supply ( 600 Watt -- Power Supply SLI Ready )
Processor ( Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E8400 (2x 3.0GHz/6MB L2 Cache/1333FSB) )
Processor Cooling ( Certified CPU Fan and Heatsink )
Motherboard ( [SLI] Asus P5N-D Nvidia nForce 750i SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE-1394, Dual PCI-E MB EPU Technology )
Memory ( 2 GB [1 GB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair-Value or Major Brand )
Video Card ( [New !!!] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
Video Card Brand ( === High Performance === eVGA Brand Video Card Powered by NVIDIA )
Hard Drive ( 320 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache] )
2nd Hard Drive ( None )
External Hard Drives [USB 2.0/eSATA] ( None )
CD/DVD Drive ( None )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( [** Special !!! ***] 20X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black )
Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
Speaker System ( 600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System )
Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
Floppy Drive ( None )
Monitor ( None )
2nd Monitor ( None )
Keyboard ( None )
Mouse ( None )
USB 2.0 Accessories ( Built-in USB 2.0 Ports )
Meter Display ( None )
Flash Media Reader/Writer ( None )
Operation System ( None- Pre-formatted Hard Drive Only )
Media Center Remote Control & TV Tuner ( None )
USB Flash Drive ( None )
MP3 Player ( None )
TV Tuner ( None )
Video Camera ( None )
Headset ( None )
Power Protection ( None )
Warranty ( Warranty Service Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support )
Rush Service ( Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) No Rush, Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days )

$977.

Which isn't too bad of a deal. I'm going to price it out on Newegg and see what it comes down to. I'm not sure I like their case/PSU pricing too much. But they are putting it together for you, so that's the price of labor I guess.

The video card - Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 is brand new and competes pretty directly with the AMD HD 4870/50, I decided for the Nvidia because of the 896mb RAM as opposed to the 512 on the AMD card, and it was only $17 more for it.

In terms of RAM, I hate their choices. You could easily buy non-value tagged RAM from any online retailer for way cheaper than they're offering, it's the only outright rip-off that I can see out of this whole thing.

An AMD system would most likely end up being lower priced, and perform just as well. All you need really, is a *good* all around CPU, and make sure you graphics card is upper-echelon quality, and most gaming should be handled fine, as most games are less and less CPU centric these days (save for maybe the Source engine, which runs easily anyway).

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Re: comp advice

Post  Saaladin on 1st August 2008, 09:59

SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM - $26.99
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail - 49.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - 74.99
EVGA 896-P3-1260-AR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail - 279.99
Antec EA650 650W ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 Power Supply - Retail - 64.99
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail - 79.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail - 169.99
ASUS P5N-D LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 750i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - 149.99

Subtotal: $895.93
Tax: $64.68 (This is only because they charge tax to ship to NY)
Shipping: $27.96 (to my zipcode)
Grand Total: $988.57

I'm not sure if you'd have to pay tax - Newegg says that only NY, California and some other state has to pay sales tax, from what it looks like. I suddenly hate living here.

But anyway, before all that it's $895.93 vs $977.00. Everything I specced out is comparable to Ibuypower, save for the 4GB RAM from Gskill on the Newegg order. So what it comes down to is that you're paying $81 for assembly, 2 GB less RAM, 50w less on your power supply (and it's probably some no-name brand) while you have a 650w Antec PSU from Newegg. Also, the hard drive from Newegg is 500GB, as opposed to 320GB from Ibuy.

But that's just a quick breakdown. If you have no way of assembling it yourself, you're going to have to get something from Ibuypower. And from looking at the comparison, it's not a bad deal really. Like I said, I'll spec out an AMD based system, see if I can lower the price a bit and keep the performance as high.

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Re: comp advice

Post  Saaladin on 1st August 2008, 10:06

AMD System:

Case ( Tuniq Symmetry I Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply Silver )
Case Lighting ( None )
Power Supply ( 600 Watt -- Power Supply SLI Ready )
Processor ( AMD Athlon™ X2 6000+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology )
Free Software/Game ( Free Games - [Age of Empires III] and [Rise Of Nations: Rise Of Legend] must purchase with AMD Athlon 64 X2/Mobile AMD Turion 64/Turion 64 X2 Processor based system )
Processor Cooling ( Certified CPU Fan and Heatsink )
Motherboard ( [SLI] Asus M3N72-D NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, IEEE 1394, USB 2.0, Dual PCI-E/HDMI MB )
Memory ( 2 GB [1 GB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Mushkin )
Video Card ( [New !!!] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
Video Card Brand ( === High Performance === eVGA Brand Video Card Powered by NVIDIA )
Hard Drive ( 320 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache] )
2nd Hard Drive ( None )
External Hard Drives [USB 2.0/eSATA] ( None )
CD/DVD Drive ( None )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( [** Special !!! ***] 20X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black )
Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
Speaker System ( 600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System )
Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
Floppy Drive ( None )
Monitor ( None )
2nd Monitor ( None )
Keyboard ( None )
Mouse ( None )
USB 2.0 Accessories ( Built-in USB 2.0 Ports )
Meter Display ( None )
Flash Media Reader/Writer ( 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer Black )
Operation System ( None- Pre-formatted Hard Drive Only )
Media Center Remote Control & TV Tuner ( None )
USB Flash Drive ( None )
MP3 Player ( None )
TV Tuner ( None )
Video Camera ( None )
Headset ( None )
Power Protection ( None )
Warranty ( Warranty Service Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support )
Rush Service ( Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) No Rush, Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days )


I'll make it easy for you. If you're going to get a machine from Ibuypower - go with the AMD one Razz This system would be all around great for gaming, I'd say. Based on the benchmarks of the GTX 260 alone you could ascertain that.

Now if you want to go for another video card and run in SLI, it'd be another 300ish dollars. So it'd bring you up to around $1200... which is slightly over budget for you. What I'd do, is get the base system, see if I'm happy with the performance. If not, wait a month or so, and grab a second 260 and throw it in the comp.

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pc

Post  unlogged on 1st August 2008, 14:11

Thanks for the input..

I've got a dell XPS but it's at least 4 years old now. Cant handle anything beyond HL2. Never had any problems with it and it will be a backup for me..but they just seem pricey at this point.

What is SLI..isn't it just running two cards?

And i'm tempted to try and put together myself, have a step by step guide and worse case theres a guy here who would do it for $50 if i hose it up.

Thanks for the input

-Len

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Re: comp advice

Post  Saaladin on 1st August 2008, 14:16

Yeah, SLI is running two cards.

Putting them together yourself isn't bad at all. Can be annoying, and take a few hours depending.

Just want to make sure you don't use screwdrivers that are magnetized, don't work on a carpet, and discharge any possible static you have by touching the steel panels on the computer case. Razz

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Re: comp advice

Post  Evangel on 1st August 2008, 14:57

sal loves this stuff, he remotely built my computer for me lol. he told me all the stuff to get and i went down to the place where they put stuff together for me and told them to order all that stuff. well, mostly

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Re: comp advice

Post  Yohansen on 3rd August 2008, 15:24

Wait a sec.

Saal is telling people what to buy for computers? When did this start?

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Re: comp advice

Post  Bloodpool on 3rd August 2008, 16:22

sometime around his find of his first pubic hair... so roughly a week ago~
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Some tidbits

Post  Kinsar on 3rd August 2008, 22:13

Len _ Just to get you pointed in the right direction, grant it; I wont really tell you what is right or wrong in selection; I will point you in the right direction to getting your best buck for a gaming system.

Case If you are going to be getting a case, get a good case. The thing to buy here is something with lots of fan capability. When I say fans, not those little bitty things, I mean one 120 in the front, one or two in the rear, and something up top by the power supply. You get anything less, your wasting your time. Another thing to look out for is expandability and adding on at a later date; larger is better, but, you don’t need a server tower. Also, keep in mind, the larger cases are less crowded and move air better.
………………………..NO POWER SUPPLY, BUY YOUR OWN…………………

Case Lights – Unless you really into flashing lights and all that strobe looking shit, forget it, they are expensive and not really worth the added costs.

Power Supply – Okay, this is the number two ticket item in your build, the first is the case, this is the next important. All the new video cards take an enormous amount of power to run. Without getting too mushy, keep it above 600 is a good guideline. If you are really going into a large video card, you might want to spend a tad more cash and go with the 700 or 750.

Processor – Get the most you can get without notching the price way up. If you look on Newegg, you can test the prices of each processor. Things to keep in mind are to get the most cache and processor without going broke. You will see that cost line between processors; the one will be about 200-300 more for the next faster model; that is the fine line of too much. Heck, even the slower is better; you can offset some of your processor with RAM and video capabilities at less cost.

CPU Cooler – The stock coolers are junk, and noisy, look at newegg and get the CFM flow rates and noise level for each.

Memory – The third big ticket; first and foremost all the DDR3 stuff, don’t even think about it, its pricey and you don’t want bleeding edge. I would suggest 4gb of ddr2 800. This is solid performing and very cost effective memory. You don’t want more than four because of windows compatibility issues, but four will be the best buy for the buck. Don’t get less than 800 speed. I forgot to mention almost 2 sticks of 2gb, dont get four singles. The onboard controllers on today's motherboards simply flakes out and doesnt know what to do. Along this very same note, get the black box of MS Windows as well. Dont get the upgrade or all that cheaper crap, go for the professional home in the black box or better. The coding and memory utilization is considerably different, not too mention the device compatability listing, yes they are different.

Video Card – Okay, the coupe-de-grace in video goodies is here. You want a card that will blow your socks off and not bog down. Two protocols, NVIDA and the other guys. While I use to be a fan of the other guys, I have been a bit off by their line of cards and simply moved to nvidia for cost and comparison. I would suggest nothing less than 8800 either the 320 mb versions or higher. If you really want to get a good performing card go to toms hardware review and pull down a list of GPU performance specs and compare what you are getting for the best buck. Keep in mind, 3d gaming systems need big video performance. At the very same time, SLI is nice but way too much money; unless you’re a studio designer with the real need, don’t bother. SLI takes way too power supply and its simply too high for the cost.
Hard Drive – Okay, a dime a dozen, go to newegg and price something. If you store a tone of pictures, games, and everything else; buy the bigger drive. Keep in mid, I didn’t say you need four 500gb drives, one will probably suffice totally. If you store a bunch, get some additional space is all I am saying. At the very same time, you might want to drop by the best buy or office max and at some point buy a plug in back up drive, push the button and presto bango, your back in business if you loose the drive; these are cheap and plug and play.

DVD/CD – If you want to watch movies, get this, if not keep it simple.

Sound Board – Most of the boards out there today have 7.1 available, you really don’t need this to be honest. If you have those killer speakers and they are digital, get the board, if not, the onboard sound is not really that bad.

NIC – they are on the board, don’t bother.

Keyboard & Moue – Cheaper at walmart, get USB.

Monitor – Okay, the last important thing, if you got the killer video card, get the killer monitor. I would suggest something in the 22 – 25 in range and watch three factors. The first is refresh rate, 2ms is killer, 5ms is livable. The next is ratio of the picture, while 500:1 is okay 3000:1 is killer and really not that expensive; the difference is like getting hit with a semi versus a VW. Get the higher pixel ratio, it is worth the cost. Finally, is the level of the pictures, if they say 1280 by 1024 as their max rate, look else where, you want something that will crank it out at big rates, 1600 by 1200 is the good stuff, be flexible.

Motherboard – Okay, since your not going to overclock, don’t bother with any of the EVGA based 680, 780, 650, 750, etc style of boards, you don’t want overclocking tools because your really buying good to start with. I would stay with the solid performing boards, not bleeding edge but solid performers, the new Intel G33 chipsets are killer for cost and performance. The only point I would offer is don’t get onboard video, its shody and isn’t worth the extra cost. I would get the onboard sound and usually dual gigabyte NIC’s are already staged onboard. Go with the higher onboard BUS speeds of 1300 and stay with DDR2 mem compliant boards. Dont get crazy, the cost just isnt worth the extra coinage in all the bells and whistles.

Past that, your set..

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Re: comp advice

Post  Yohansen on 4th August 2008, 03:17

Wow, that was waaaay too complicated an explanation for something so simple....

Just change the hamster Len. That'll get you another year or two.

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Re: comp advice

Post  Yohansen on 4th August 2008, 03:20

My brain feels like burning right about now...

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comp

Post  Len on 7th August 2008, 10:00

broke my budget. Anyone see anything excessive here..

$1155.00
(before all applicable rebates)
CASE: NEW!!! CoolerMaster Cosmos Silent Gaming Tower Case w/ 420 Watts Power Supply (Original Color)
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.0GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
MOTHERBOARD: MSI P7N SLI-FI 750i SLI Chipset LGA775 Supports LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)4GB (2x2GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT 1GB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (320GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
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Re: comp advice

Post  Saaladin on 7th August 2008, 10:04

Price is awfully high for a system with just a 9600 GT...

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Re: comp advice

Post  Maiven on 7th August 2008, 11:00

at a quick glace I agree. That price looks pretty high for that you have listed. What the price/component breakdown?

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Re: comp advice

Post  Evangel on 7th August 2008, 16:21

i'm not sure that power supply is enough, just from my untrained eye. and don't rely on any rebates to bring down your price. they love to find some reason why you've disqualified yourself for the rebate.

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Re: comp advice

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